The Football Thread 2009/10

[Denster]

I really think United should get Joe cole. Then get Benzema and a playmaker!

[Chocolate Jim]

If United managed to secure the services of Joe Cole, Benzema and Schweinstiger (Sp?) I think I would cum my pants

[Neph]

You know when everyone laughs about Liverpool's plight etc yea its not great for them right now but they are in a better situation at the moment than United is X 100.

The price of Liverpool as a club is considerably less than United's so they don't need a billionaire to take them places if Liverpool stabilised and paid off their debts in full to get rid of the repayments that would steady the ship United need a buyer with 2 billion to get them out.

In the next 5 years we are probably more likely to see United in the bottom half of the table than Liverpool its a sad strawberry floating site though for both teams.

[Mr Luke]

"So we have Pepe Weina, Jamie Cawwagher, Steven Gewward, Fernando Towwes, Albert Weiwa, Wyan Babel, Jay Speawing."

[Mafro]

In the next 5 years we are probably more likely to see United in the bottom half of the table than Liverpool its a sad strawberry floating site though for both teams.

[Red Devil]

You know when everyone laughs about Liverpool's plight etc yea its not great for them right now but they are in a better situation at the moment than United is X 100.

The price of Liverpool as a club is considerably less than United's so they don't need a billionaire to take them places if Liverpool stabilised and paid off their debts in full to get rid of the repayments that would steady the ship United need a buyer with 2 billion to get them out.

In the next 5 years we are probably more likely to see United in the bottom half of the table than Liverpool its a sad strawberry floating site though for both teams.

You a Liverpool side that has no money, no manager and no Champions League football will do better than a United side which finished 2nd, spent £20 million on Javier Hernandez, Chris Smalling etc and will probably have another good season next season?

[Henke]

He said the next 5 years to be fair. Either team will get bailed out if the worst happens though. They're too attractive to go the way of many other teams in the UK that quietly go under.

[Denster]

That really isn't the case. Liverpool's situation has worsened due to the lack of money from the CL non qualification. United's business plan is depenedent on them qualifying for the champions league every season - which they have, comfortably. If United dont recruit players and slide then they will become a little precarious but they already have interested parties and will continue to do so. If worse came to worse and someone had to buy United debt and all then they would. United are a bigger global name than Liverpool and are far more valuable commodity (in terms of image and TV rights) to the premier league. It's inconceivable that they would go under - they are simply too large and well supported.

Liverpool's situation is far more grave than United's. They haven't got champions league to offer prospective players and a new manager. They need a new stadium to start to generate greater profits (which United already have) which they cannot afford. They stand to lose some or all their best players leaving a team of mediocre talent with no experience of winning anything. Liverpoo need investment now. United need to shift some of their debt.


Personally (and i've stated this before) this summer will illustrate exactly how much of the finances the glazers are willing to commit to transfers. If it is not suffcient then the clamour for them to go will reach fever pitch with more and more people supporting the Red Knights or similiar.

If the Red Knights bought United for 1.5 billion and immediately cleared the debt - that would leave a net worth of say 700million - but then United would be proft making freely with no excess interest payments bleeding them dry.

United are (and have always been) a massively profitable organisation. They don't have to win the league every year to remain so. It would be nice if someone owned them out right, though.

[Mr Luke]

You know when everyone laughs about Liverpool's plight etc yea its not great for them right now but they are in a better situation at the moment than United is X 100.

The price of Liverpool as a club is considerably less than United's so they don't need a billionaire to take them places if Liverpool stabilised and paid off their debts in full to get rid of the repayments that would steady the ship United need a buyer with 2 billion to get them out.

In the next 5 years we are probably more likely to see United in the bottom half of the table than Liverpool its a sad strawberry floating site though for both teams.

You a Liverpool side that has no money, no manager and no Champions League football will do better than a United side which finished 2nd, spent £20 million on Javier Hernandez, Chris Smalling etc and will probably have another good season next season?

Whilst you're right in what you say, you're missing the main point of Neph's post. United in the long-term can be just as royally strawberry floated as Liverpool. He raises a good issue about it being more difficult to find a buyer for United because the debts revealed this week are even greater than originally thought.

[Red Devil]

Denster's post says it better than I ever could.

I'll watch the panorama thing tomorrow though.

[bear]

The one thing Liverpool have going in their favour over United is that the owners are actively looking to sell even if the the currently mooted asking price is a good £200 million too much.

The longer the Glazers remain at United the worse their situation will get mainly because the competition is improving all the time and Uniteds debt mountain is becoming more and more of a hindrance. Chelsea and City both have moneybags owners willing to pump in hundreds of millions to compete while Arsenal and Tottenham are both better run clubs who are turning profits. Arsenal in particular should be a worry to United because the way they are currently going they could well very well be debt free inside the next ten years with plenty to spend in the transfer market.

[Neph]

That really isn't the case. Liverpool's situation has worsened due to the lack of money from the CL non qualification. United's business plan is depenedent on them qualifying for the champions league every season - which they have, comfortably. If United dont recruit players and slide then they will become a little precarious but they already have interested parties and will continue to do so. If worse came to worse and someone had to buy United debt and all then they would. United are a bigger global name than Liverpool and are far more valuable commodity (in terms of image and TV rights) to the premier league. It's inconceivable that they would go under - they are simply too large and well supported.

Liverpool's situation is far more grave than United's. They haven't got champions league to offer prospective players and a new manager. They need a new stadium to start to generate greater profits (which United already have) which they cannot afford. They stand to lose some or all their best players leaving a team of mediocre talent with no experience of winning anything. Liverpoo need investment now. United need to shift some of their debt.


Personally (and i've stated this before) this summer will illustrate exactly how much of the finances the glazers are willing to commit to transfers. If it is not suffcient then the clamour for them to go will reach fever pitch with more and more people supporting the Red Knights or similiar.

If the Red Knights bought United for 1.5 billion and immediately cleared the debt - that would leave a net worth of say 700million - but then United would be proft making freely with no excess interest payments bleeding them dry.

United are (and have always been) a massively profitable organisation. They don't have to win the league every year to remain so. It would be nice if someone owned them out right, though.

But this is the problem the Red Knights were looking at a bid between 1-1.5 bill MAX and the glazers have already turned down a 1.5billion Offer the Glazers WILL drag this club down.

I think your being a bit optimistic. Fergie saying there wont be big changes. We are in desperate need of a striker who can score a creative midfielder yet no one is purchased

Yea they are a bigger brand and with the right owners they would be probably the most profitable club in the world what worries me is now that after revelations that their "Malls" in America 63/64 have mortgages against them and can't even cover their loan repayments, they have taken out a loan against the buccaneers and now United has around £1 billion of DEBT alone not many people in the world can afford to purchase a club tat may cost £2 billion to buy. Thats an almighty figure, i question even if the red knights would right off the debts.

Even now when they spoke about it they said they considered keeping the bond issue the glazers did so they weren't going to pay off all the debt.

I supposes Denster how do you seriously see United tackeling £1 billion of debt with 400 millions worth on 16% interest and is it 300 million that has to be paid back in 2012/13?

EDIT 2017 and far more than i thought:

At the current level, this will see the £275 million PIK debt arranged in 2005 rise to an enormous £580 million in 2017 when they reach maturity.

Seriously where will we get the money we would have made a 40MILLION LOSS without the sale of Ronaldo

Something interesting:

Since the Glazers completed their takeover of United five years ago, he has spent a net £32.4 million on new players—an average of just £6.48 million a season and much less than many of the club’s rivals.

Sure we've been successful in the last 5 years but the team is getting older. I suppose I'm pretty damn worried if we can't get rid of the Glazers

Denster's post says it better than I ever could.

I'll watch the panorama thing tomorrow though.

It was on tonight.
Ie Tuesday night

[Denster]

Haven't seen the panorama thing but the simple fact is - If the glazers get more and more in debt they will have to sell and cut their losses - especially if they continue to suffer protests and other parties being interested. It's the glazers other businesses that are causing the problems. I think there'll be an aggressive takeover at some point in the next 18 months. Even if the absolute worst happened and the glazers went bankrupt - united would be sold and maybe star players would too - but the brand name is too established for them to go under - same for Liverpool (although to a lesser extent).

The deal that City have is a great one but people with vast sums of money get bored after a while - Look at Abramovich - he is not bankrolling chelsea in the same manner as he was originally (even though he can afford to) - and City will not be major players until they are regular champions league competitiors.

Its a gooseberry fool situation we are in but the pessimism of some United fans and hopes of a lot of other fans who want to see us fall are not commensurate with the facts or the situation.

As for 2billion to buy United that's not realistic. If the glazers have to or are made to sell it will be nearer the 1.5 mark with less of the debt incorporated into that.

The thing that annoys me most is the loans that the Glazers have taken out to fund their lavish lifestyles. That really pisses me off.

[Christopher]

Will King Kenny be able to attract any players? I think the only people who remember him as a player are now in their 30s

[Moggy]

Haven't seen the panorama thing but the simple fact is - If the glazers get more and more in debt they will have to sell and cut their losses - especially if they continue to suffer protests and other parties being interested.

If that happens then you are strawberry floated. Pure and simply strawberry floated. The Glaziers will not just go quietly because of a few protests and they are not going to sell the club until they have absolutely no choice. Which will mean the sale of players and assets. Which will cause the team to plunge down the league(s). Which will mean you are a lot less attractive to buy as although the brand name will still be there, you will no longer be a "force" in European football and not have the cash coming in that that brings.

While I am not a Man U fan, I don’t particularly wish them to fail or go bust. Unless that meant all the teams above Bristol City failed as well and we win the league by default.

[Drunken_Master]

It can't be right that a successful and well run football club can be bought and then incur the debts of the owners who bought it.

That's what you get for floating the club on the stock exchange. Perhaps the FA ought to create some new rules to stop this kind of thing happening again. Countries like Germany already have rules in place to stop this kind of thing happening.

The deal that City have is a great one but people with vast sums of money get bored after a while - Look at Abramovich - he is not bankrolling chelsea in the same manner as he was originally (even though he can afford to) - and City will not be major players until they are regular champions league competitiors.

Not bitter at all, are we? Abramovich, doesn't need to bankroll Chelsea. They've got a nucleus of players capable of winning the league and Champions league. All they need to is strengthen. So it's a bit disingenuous to say 'Abramovich isn't spending as much money as he initially did, he must be bored'.

City will inevitably be successful, these Arabs have pots and pots of cash. If they throw enough money at something, it'll happen. If the premier league has proved one thing, it's that money can buy success.

[Harry Ola]

Panorama did not tell us anything we did not know already.

David Gill's insistence that United can service goes to the heart of why I think somebody (Fifa/FA/Government) need to step in. Since the Glazers bought the club something like £437m has gone out in interest payments and fees. The Andersblog pointed out this is equivalent of letting every season ticket holder watch every match for free for 5 years and giving each fan a £700 bonus.

Every pound servicing the debt is money that leaves football. Fans pay out and it ends up in the pockets of some banker somewhere. Football cannot sustain such a drain of money from just one club. Even if it is not United that goes out of business, that sort of loss of money is not being spent on developing players or transfers from other clubs. If United are unable to splash the cash then it impacts on clubs further down the food chain. And when you factor in the amount of cash leaving football at other clubs as well, somebody has to act.

For United, the only option now is to stop giving the Glazers cash. However it happens and I can't see it being through season ticket renewals, the fans need to disturb the Glazers cash cow.

[Exxy]

Are any United players out of contract next month? Just curious.

[Spindash]

Dickov appointed Oldham manager

A big gamble but good luck to them. Dickov

[Mafro]

Denster's post says it better than I ever could.

I'll watch the panorama thing tomorrow though.

It was on tonight.
Ie Tuesday night

iPlayer exists.