The Poker Thread

Disagree with the idea of 4betting unless the stacks are fairly shallow as you're turning your hand into a bluff.

Not sure I'd call the cold 4bet as played and I don't think the fact he won the first hand helps in this case unless there was something specific about his play in that hand we can draw a conclusion from (Very unlikely.)

As played I'd fold the flop due to the cold 4bettor behind us having a range that crushes us most of the time as well as not being certain of what the UTG+1 has.

PsychicSykes wrote:Disagree with the idea of 4betting unless the stacks are fairly shallow as you're turning your hand into a bluff.

Not sure I'd call the cold 4bet as played and I don't think the fact he won the first hand helps in this case unless there was something specific about his play in that hand we can draw a conclusion from (Very unlikely.)

As played I'd fold the flop due to the cold 4bettor behind us having a range that crushes us most of the time as well as not being certain of what the UTG+1 has.

The hand is played very strangely pre IMO. I don't mind calling in position but what if the flop is low all the way down? Do you stack off to the KK and AA you feared (as you didn't 4 bet pre)?

It's fine to four bet fold IMO if you are deep enough 5k with 25/50 chips is good enough for me. But you flop almost exactly what you wanted to flop with a set + 2 overs I guess. It's a monster and you cannot fold the flop in my donkish eyes. Chances of you being beat aren't particularly high if he has cold called your 3-bet.

The fact that it is the 2nd hand of the tournament also plays a rather large part. You can't accurately range somebody that you've never played more than 2 hands against!

Nova describes the risk of cold calling three bets in position quite well. Especially as your hand now reeks of weakness to the button/sb/bb (flatting in pos. into what will be a 3 way pot smells of you playing a speculative hand!) dry flops will destroy your stack as the cold deck runs to the river. risk losing 700 chips from 3 bet folding to an all in imo.

edit: i mean throughout that you should be the 3 bettor to the raises that have been made already!

4bet Jam. You can't call a 4bet for what is effectively set mining. Now if the button cold 5bets you I can probably let it go.

Ecno wrote:4bet Jam. You can't call a 4bet for what is effectively set mining. Now if the button cold 5bets you I can probably let it go.

Yeah I agree with this. If you're just calling the 4bet pre, you're assuming he has AA/KK and you might as well have 77/88, which you would fold, surely? If you're afraid of AA/KK I am either 4bet/folding (depending on action behind, if cutoff 5bets I can probably fold), or folding pre.

EDIT:

Luw wrote:edit: i mean throughout that you should be the 3 better to the raises that have been made already!

And this, although I think you mean 4 bet pre.

oops misread the action. Though UTG raise UTG cold called.

4-bet fold is my favourite move here you. If there not five betting do they usually have AA/KK ? With so much action I would be eating up the chance to 5-bet with aces or kings.

Cold calling a 3bet with QQ is set mining which isn't great. You never know where you are good unless you actually hit the set. Basically I agree with what enco said!

Last edited by Drumstick on Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It's a very strange but interesting hand. I think if I had been in your position then I would have 4bet this baby preflop for sure. If the button then decides to 5bet it would be a shove, and I would possibly look to re-evaluate, although our decision could largely rest on what UTG+1 does. A post hand note: I can't see the button 5betting with jacks if you 4bet it yourself unless he's a bit of a maniac although you can't know that at the time.

If UTG+1 had KK or AA then it is likely that they would have put in a 5bet themselves. The only person you are worried about after UTG+1 flats is the dealer, and if you'd 4bet it yourself then he might not even be in the hand, and provided he folds I'm quite comfortable getting it all in on the flop with UTG+1.

PS: Bankroll is $1.4k now. I'm already past my target for this year of $1.2k.

I'm trying to follow the posts in here now, but it's like you're all speaking another language. What does UTG mean? 'Running deep'? 3/4 betting?

Igor wrote:I'm trying to follow the posts in here now, but it's like you're all speaking another language. What does UTG mean? 'Running deep'? 3/4 betting?

UTG stands for 'Under The Gun' - where you are if you are after the blinds - and in the worst position on the table for that hand.

UTG+1 - is one place further around the table from Under The Gun.

CO or C/O means 'Cut-off' - that is where you are sat if you are to act in the seat just before the dealer.

A raise is a raise of a bet that has been made.

A RE-RAISE is a raise of an already raised bet. This can also be called a '3-bet'.

A RE-RE-RAISE is a raise again. This can be called a '4 Bet'

A three/four/five bet shove is making the raise again, but in the form of 'shoving' ALL IN with your stack.

Igor wrote:I'm trying to follow the posts in here now, but it's like you're all speaking another language. What does UTG mean? 'Running deep'? 3/4 betting?

UTG = Under The Gun. This is the person sat to the immediate left of the person in the Big Blind position. You're 'under the gun' because you have to act first, meaning you should generally only play very strong hands (AA/KK/QQ/AK) seeing as you don't know what the rest of the table is going to do.

Running deep = lasting a long time in a tournament. If a tournament generally lasts around six hours and you're still doing well five hours in, you're running deep.

3/4 betting refers to raises. The blinds count as the first bet, so if someone open raises pre-flop then they have made a 2bet (although it's never referred to as that, just as an open raise). If someone then re-raises the open raiser, it's called a 3bet. If someone then re-raises the re-raiser, it's a 4bet. Then you sit there in late position with 27o and 5bet shove. Yeah. 8-)

Edit -

The running deep which Luwinski mentions in his post is actually in reference to how deep stacked the players are for that blind level, with 100BBs.

I'm back, btw, from DK. So is anyone up for the Titan tonight? I'm starting a new roll with $750 (last time I take stuff out, honest!), so sticking a fair bit in Celeb Poker, Pokerstars and a little in Titan.

Drumstick wrote:The running deep which Luwinski mentions in his post is actually in reference to how deep stacked the players are for that blind level, with 100BBs.

Oh. I didn't look at Luw's post. Context FTL.

Why Celeb poker rich?

PostRe: The Poker Thread - Titan Tuesday by **Nova** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:06 pm

Old RB deal before it went to iPoker.

PostRe: The Poker Thread - Titan Tuesday by **Igor** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:21 pm

XXXBBs means how many chips you have compared to the big blind, yeah? So if you have 25BB and the big blind is $10, you have a $250 stack?

Igor wrote:XXXBBs means how many chips you have compared to the big blind, yeah? So if you have 25BB and the big blind is $10, you have a $250 stack?

Correct!

Just cashed the $3 turbo rebuy on IPoker came 15/214 for $40

PostRe: The Poker Thread - Titan Tuesday by **Nova** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:47 pm

My Celeb Poker Nickname is MajorCelebz, apparantly :lol:

Is it possible to change from Euros on IPK if that was your first choice?

EDIT: First 4 hands back at the poker experience and I'm out of a tourney. AA in vs 99 pre, 997 flop.
Welcome Back! :lol:

Playing the RB again tonight as is Aaron.

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