Yeah, I have both of those. Easy Peasy Chinese was one that had good reviews on Amazon and looked very "light" in tone and, to be honest, it's alright. It's quite basic, but if you're studying a topic in one book, it's good to go and have a look at it in this to pick up on some more vocab and sentence patterns. And having another CD is good too.
I have the Chinese by Steps Vol 1 (and Vol 2), which was what we used in my class last year. I've gotten into a routine of using it and have a set work pattern for each new topic - I learn the characters by their stroke order first and practice on a bit of paper writing them out repeatedly with their pinyin next to them. Then I repeatedly listen to them read out in a list whilst doing a bit of writing and then I'll do the handwriting bit at the back. Then, I write down all the "sentence patterns" and "dialogues" by hand as I find it's easier to remember them if I do this rather than just reading. Then I'll listen to them both on the CD. Finally, I will then do the activities.
I'm not actually as far through as you think I am. I've done a year of classes, but that just took us through Book 1 (some people in my class were awful at it, and either not as good with languages as I was or just not putting the effort in between classes) so progress was slow there and I was always a lesson or two ahead.
I am currently only halfway through Book 2 at the moment. Not quite a Beginner, I suppose, as I probably know about 500 characters, but maybe not quite an Intermediate either. And, of course, by doing it all on my own now (Classes finished in May), my speaking and listening aren't as good as my reading and writing.
That looks a bit heavy for a beginner. Let me know how you find it, as I could do with a more serious grammar book rather than just learning from sentences in the other textbooks.
I know with Japanese I bought a few books like that straightaway and found them useless, as I didn't have the prior knowledge of the language to base anything else on. It looks like a more of an Intermediate book.
final-fx wrote:I mainly use Fluenz and other software at the moment though, which, currently at least, only uses Pinyin. I understand where you're coming from regarding pinyin, but I'm trying to get myself to a certain level by October-ish so I don't have to do a beginner's class, as I would move a lot faster than the class, and it would frustrate me. The classes tend to focus on speaking, reading and listening, so I'd rather get myself up to a more advanced standard, and then go back and teach myself characters and writing in my own time. I will try and do some character work now I've got the book, though, so hopefully I can get the hang of it.
As I was always ahead of the others, what I used the classes for was basically revision (as you can never really do too much, and going back over a topic helps reinforce it) and speaking and listening. Sounds like you'll do the same. I find it is much easier, especially when it comes to reading and writing characters, if you put a bit of work in before the topic comes up. If your teacher is anything like mine, he won't go much into the writing of the characters particularly, and instead introduce them and go straight into speaking conversational sentences.
final-fx wrote:Are you still doing both Mandarin and Japanese? I'm hoping that I don't get mixed up between them too much. I didn't really mix up German and French at GCSE, but I can see myself mixing Spanish with the latter, as they're more similar. I'm also hoping that Chinese is sufficiently different to distinguish itself from the others in my head. I've also tried separating what I use them for (for example, I'll read news in french but then read about football in spanish), which should help out a little. I'm half-expecting to come back to this thread in a month or so in a horrible and confused mess.
I don't really dedicate as much time to Japanese as I should do. My spare time isn't quite what it was last summer and, as a result, Chinese gets the preference at the moment. I did end up getting confused, as I was often doing similar topics in both and sometimes it was a nightmare - when I first was doing numbers in Chinese I was also doing them in Japanese, and in class I would often start starting going "ichi... ni.. san" and it would get to the point where I would see the Chinese character, think of the number in Japanese (the characters seem to be the all the same for numbers, or at least 1-10 are) and then translate
that into English. A bit unworkable.
So, what my plan is now is to get to a comfortable level in Chinese - maybe to the end of Volume 2 of Chinese in Steps - and then go back to Japanese. So I will, effectively be on two different levels with the language and hopefully far ahead enough in Chinese to not get muddled.
Also, bear in mind that people reckon Mandarin and Japanese take about 4500 hours of work to become fluent (the US graded these in the highest category for English speakers, along with Russian, Arabic and Korean), and it can be hard to keep that workload ticking over when you have two.
What I found was that it is very easy to make speedy progress in both initially, and you're vocab with increase rapidly and you'll fly through some of your book. However, you'll hit a wall in one or both and then it becomes a struggle to cope with having two very similar languages on the go (similar in some respects anyway, as I doubt anyone would get spoken Chinese and spoken Japanese mixed up).
That wall will likely come in your Japanese learning, if you're anything like me. Japanese grammar is, quite frankly, a nightmare and is nowhere near as simple as Chinese and this, coupled with your move into Kanji and its onyomi and kunyomi means progress can be frustrating and swiftly stalled. It's here I wish I'd had a night class in Japanese or a tutor or someone to keep me ticking over. It is possible though - StayDead got through it unscathed.
For me, the learning curves of Chinese and Japanese are quite different. Japanese you make a lot of progress very quickly and you can become quite a comfortable speaker after only a month or two (on certain, limited topics obviously). You'll probably pick up hiragan and katakana fairly rapidly too, and it is quite a confidence boost when you get those nailed down in your memory and suddenly Japanese text is "unlocked" and becomes readable.
Then you get the grammar and the kanji.
Chinese you really have to start off on a blank footing and just wade in to some simple conversation and characters. You've got the tones as well, which are difficult to get your head round if you don't speak it regularly.
Personally, I always find Japanese much easier to speak and listen to and Chinese is way, way, way easier to read and write. I'm hoping that if I can nail those 2000 common characters John Galt posted, then they may help with some basic Kanji readings later.
final-fx wrote:I also saw that you recommended Mi Vida Loca on the bbc website earlier, which looks brilliant, so I'll start that soon. Out of curiosity, what level were you at in French and Spanish, and can you still speak them now?
My French was at A-level standard and my Spanish at GCSE. The latter was self-taught though.
As to what standard I am at now, I am not so sure, as I don't often use them (I haven't been to France or Spain for a while). I was reading some French for whatever reason a few weeks back and I'm still okay. I was speaking to a Spanish guy last week when he roomed with us in a dorm in Dublin and it was a bit of a stretch at times (he was barely able to speak a word of English). I could communicate with him, but conversation was definitely limited and my sentences stunted by what I could say.
Having not done them for a while, it's a lot harder to say sentences off the top of my head and in general use, but I can generally read *most* everyday stuff and gather a meaning from it, if not go through it word for word.
Listening, I struggle with the speed of speech a little bit.
If you're learning a few characters in Chinese by Steps, I'll have a very basic Chinese conversation with you if you want? And see if we can answer each other without looking at a book.
I found a useful Chinese writing tool on the web as well, and I'll try and grab a link.
Also, an... ahem... link to this Fluenz would be tasty.