Forza 4 Thread - Top Gear Car Pack Out May 1st

gamerforever wrote:They need to add some soul into the franchise, jazz it up a little. Maybe add some quirky license tests or drift trials? An arcade mode would also be awesome. I also want more city locations.

strawberry float RIGHT OFF

Making sure non-Endurance races don't go on for 10+ laps has to be done surely!

Eighthours wrote:I HATE RETAILER-SPECIFIC BONUSES.

STOP DOING THIS, VIDEOGAME DEVELOPERS.

Don't blame us, it's the Publishers. We don't even talk to retail, we just get told what to do. :lol:

I think Microsoft are perhaps a little bit worried about this going the way of PGR4 - a game which is very good and better than it's predecessor in every way, but something that the audience is getting a bit tired of.

I just hope they put some proper time trials in, a la Forza 2's Arcade mode.

Forza (and Gran Turismo, for that matter) needs one thing above all else: exciting racing. Races are all predictably dull in SP modes and have been throughout every Forza - drivers almost never make mistakes, they don't really fight for position and, half of the time, it's too easy to just upgrade your car to a point where you can blitz the opposition.

I think the issue is that real racing drivers rarely make mistakes. It could have the visceral, balls out racing a la Shift, but it would be at the expense of realistic racing.

The main problem I had was that the AI difficulty levels dont scale very well. Play on Medium and lap people with no issue, play Hard and have the AI as fearless cruise missiles out to kill you.

Mistakes are made in every race, though admittedly small. But cars rarely even catch the grass going into a corner too fast or lock up under braking, they rarely even make contact with other racers. It just bugs me that they can get the handling to a point where it's very impressive, but never get the actual racing right.

I know these games are supposedly "driving simulators" but they're primarily racing games, which is a point that Turn10 has missed since day one.

I do agree with you there, but I worry that they may take it too far. Ive seen the AI make mistakes in Forza, though that is rare, and Ive played a fuckload. Some of the most challenging racing Ive done in Forza is when its bumper to bumper and noone is giving an inch, rather than bumper cars or people flying everywhere.

Ive been in situations in Shift and Grid to a lesser extent, wherein I swear the AI has just thrown themselves off the track to create the illusion of dramaticism. Its no fun when they are actively trying to kill themselves.

But on the other hand I've seen AI plow right through or turn in on my car even though it must know it's going to cause an accident.

Kanbei wrote:Making sure non-Endurance races don't go on for 10+ laps has to be done surely!

They could do with categorising events as Sprint, Race and Endurance. Well, something like which donates the different type of race it is.

Agent47 wrote:Forza (and Gran Turismo, for that matter) needs one thing above all else: exciting racing. Races are all predictably dull in SP modes and have been throughout every Forza - drivers almost never make mistakes, they don't really fight for position and, half of the time, it's too easy to just upgrade your car to a point where you can blitz the opposition.

It's the same with all these games. The knack is to limit your own potential so the race is inherently more competitive. I know that's not ideal but all to often I found myself going for a car with a lower rating to make it interesting. It was the only way to be sure the A.I. were at least as fast as me.

The other problem was the spread of A.I. ratings. One, maybe two cars could be nearly 600PPI but then the other five cars scaled down to low. I know they wanted multiple-class racing but it just didn't work.

Falsey wrote:I think the issue is that real racing drivers rarely make mistakes. It could have the visceral, balls out racing a la Shift, but it would be at the expense of realistic racing.

What level of motor racing are you talking about though?

Look at the F1 today. They are some of the best drivers in the world and yet lots of mistakes were made. Yes, it has a lot to do with the new tyres this season but it's made F1 so much better to watch.

Besides, at least early in your career in a game like Forza I think it's safe to assume that you are racing against amateurs and so there is no excuse for them to not make mistakes.

I think you misunderstand me. Im all for realistic driver error, but I dont want Forza to turn into Shift, Ive got Shift for that.

But Shift has gooseberry fool handling. I'm not asking for Shift levels of mental AI but they need to be more competitive and seem like they actually give a gooseberry fool when you overtake.

I fear that, with the rise of online gaming, dev's just don't think investing in AI is worth their time.

jamcc wrote:But Shift has gooseberry fool handling.

You are joking, right? I bet you haven't played it since they fixed all the input lag in the latest patch.

I'm talking about the original. Reviews said that it hadn't improved much with the sequel.

Is that wrong now?

jamcc wrote:I'm talking about the original. Reviews said that it hadn't improved much with the sequel.

Is that wrong now?

Yes. The handling has been completely fixed. It's now easily the best driving experience of this generation.

The handling is better, but not perfect.

jamcc wrote:But Shift has gooseberry fool handling. I'm not asking for Shift levels of mental AI but they need to be more competitive and seem like they actually give a gooseberry fool when you overtake.

I fear that, with the rise of online gaming, dev's just don't think investing in AI is worth their time.

Im not sure what you're getting at here. I said I dont want Forza to be Shift.

Well I'm saying I would like the next Forza to have some of the racing excitement of Shift or GRID (not batshit mental but not as routine as GT/Forza). It will never end up being like Shift though as Forza will doubtlessly have better/more realistic handling and more cars.

I'd love to see the introduction of more racing strategy into some of the races like being forced to change tyres at least once during a ten lap race or something like that.
How about a tuned & untuned challenge where you need to enter two cars into a race with a combined value (including mods) below the set level and you are free to choose how to spend your cash on improving the cars but one has to have the engine untouched. You can then decide to spend all your cash on the tuned car to try and pull out a big as lead as possible in one section of the race or you can try and balance your spending to improve both cars a bit but knowing that your tuned car won't be as fast as someone elses.

Yeah forgot about that. Pit stops and more exciting racing (AI) would make the game so much more compelling.

Motorsport isn't about just setting off and doing a few laps against deadly boring AI.

Forza 4 Thread - Top Gear Car Pack Out May 1st

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