Blade Runner vs. TDK

Banjo wrote:I agree that Blade Runner is dull. But I don't see how others didn't find TDK dull, so much of it superfluous. And the action scenes were pretty terrible, Christian Bale can't fight, and Chris Nolan can't direct action. The Hong Kong segment,

Saying that Nolan can't direct is so wrong that it hurts.

Anung wrote:

teh bork wrote:

Banjo wrote:I agree that Blade Runner is dull. But I don't see how others didn't find TDK dull, so much of it superfluous. And the action scenes were pretty terrible, Christian Bale can't fight, and Chris Nolan can't direct action. The Hong Kong segment,

Saying that Nolan can't direct is so wrong that it hurts.

Read it again buddy, he says he cant direct Action which im inclined to agree with.

Still wrong, TDK wasn't great in that way, but Batman Begins action scenes were superb.

Anung wrote:

teh bork wrote:

Anung wrote:

teh bork wrote:

Banjo wrote:I agree that Blade Runner is dull. But I don't see how others didn't find TDK dull, so much of it superfluous. And the action scenes were pretty terrible, Christian Bale can't fight, and Chris Nolan can't direct action. The Hong Kong segment,

Saying that Nolan can't direct is so wrong that it hurts.

Read it again buddy, he says he cant direct Action which im inclined to agree with.

Still wrong, TDK wasn't great in that way, but Batman Begins action scenes were superb.

The First Fight with Batman was great because it was relying on fear of the unknown and the crims not seeing batman coming. which makes perfect sense the fight being all shakey cam and zooms and gooseberry fool. All the other fights being like that did not. The Tumbler city scene was great also.

The scene at the start of BB in the prison and at Ra's Al Ghul's were pretty damn good, the hand to hand combat is the only area of TDK that was weak as you could see how choreographed it was, there's very little, if anything, wrong with the other action sequences.

Despite the philisophical questions they both attempt to raise, both filums are ridiculous, but I find Bladerunner less so, so I done voted Bladerunner.

teh bork wrote:

Anung wrote:

teh bork wrote:

Anung wrote:

teh bork wrote:

Banjo wrote:I agree that Blade Runner is dull. But I don't see how others didn't find TDK dull, so much of it superfluous. And the action scenes were pretty terrible, Christian Bale can't fight, and Chris Nolan can't direct action. The Hong Kong segment,

Saying that Nolan can't direct is so wrong that it hurts.

Read it again buddy, he says he cant direct Action which im inclined to agree with.

Still wrong, TDK wasn't great in that way, but Batman Begins action scenes were superb.

The First Fight with Batman was great because it was relying on fear of the unknown and the crims not seeing batman coming. which makes perfect sense the fight being all shakey cam and zooms and gooseberry fool. All the other fights being like that did not. The Tumbler city scene was great also.

The scene at the start of BB in the prison and at Ra's Al Ghul's were pretty damn good, the hand to hand combat is the only area of TDK that was weak as you could see how choreographed it was, there's very little, if anything, wrong with the other action sequences.

I thought the introduction to TDK was immense from the initial droning and off-key wailing to the 'unveiling' of Joker. Funny, suspenseful and with some really memorable shots. It's not balls-out action like the tunnel scene but it was something I watched repeatedly even in advance of the film's release.

Maybe I should clarify it moreso. Chris Nolan can't direct fight scenes, all the ones in both Batman films were pretty gooseberry fool, and weren't helped by Christian Bale's inability to fight. Of course, I realise the Batsuit must have restricted him a tad, but going by what i saw in Equilibrium, the man cannot do action. The opening of TDK was great, but it wasn't an action scene.

Banjo wrote:Maybe I should clarify it moreso. Chris Nolan can't direct fight scenes, all the ones in both Batman films were pretty gooseberry fool, and weren't helped by Christian Bale's inability to fight. Of course, I realise the Batsuit must have restricted him a tad, but going by what i saw in Equilibrium, the man cannot do action. The opening of TDK was great, but it wasn't an action scene.

Well, I was expecting that response ...but what else would you call it?

I honestly don't know where the Bale-can't-fight thing comes from. He's given a set of calculated, choreographed moves to perform, maybe having a say in what he thinks would work and what might not. The fighting style used in both Batman films was Keysi (I think) which is all about close-combat, reactive-weight, counters based on using an open-source of attack i.e if you can use your forehead then do it. It's a really tight, technical work. I know from personal experience that stuff like Keysi (if that's what it is) and Hap Ki Do, or any hoshinsool , (excuse my spelling if it's off!) aren't the prettiest of styles but they're among the most realistic and effective in that sort of combat, so it would make sense for Batman to use them. It's hard to film them, however, so I think in the movies they tried to open it up that little bit so the camera could catch on to what was happening. That's why the part where he bursts through the window in China seems more obtuse than it would be in real-life or in other scenes.

While he'll never be Jet Li or Jackie Chan, there was never a point where I thought "he's gooseberry fool at fighting" because it's a film not a UFC brawl and he seemed to handle the move-set just as well as anyone I've trained or sparred with has.
I guess I really don't understand your point. I know that you're quite well versed on films so you surely know the difference between direction/editing and performance. I don't think any of the complaints you have about the action scenes had anything to do with Bale. Not that I can comprehend, anyway.

He looks rigid when fighting. He's got no flow, no grace. He looks uneasy when moving like that. It's got nothing to do with the supposed method of combat.

The opening is not an action scene, because there's no action in it. There's an explosion or two, but since when does that constitute action?

Yes, I know you could argue that every damn thing in any film is 'action' in that it is an action, but an action scene should revolve around combat, through gunfire or hand-to-hand. The opening is a heist scene.

Ginga wrote:...stuff like Keysi (if that's what it is) and Hap Ki Do, or any hoshinsool , (excuse my spelling if it's off!).

Admit it, you just made those up.

Banjo wrote:He looks rigid when fighting. He's got no flow, no grace. He looks uneasy when moving like that. It's got nothing to do with the supposed method of combat.

The opening is not an action scene, because there's no action in it. There's an explosion or two, but since when does that constitute action?

Yes, I know you could argue that every damn thing in any film is 'action' in that it is an action, but an action scene should revolve around combat, through gunfire or hand-to-hand. The opening is a heist scene.

It's a heist scene that involves a short stand-off with the bank manager, a guy zip-lining from one building to another, the murder of clowns through gunfire and, yeah, explosions including a bus driving through the wall. I'm not trying to be anal about it but it's an action scene.

I'll have to, again, disagree with you. It has a lot to do with the method of combat because, like I just said, what they used in BB and TKD isn't a particularly graceful means of combat. It's ugly as strawberry float.
I just find it weird that you're noting down a Hollywood A-lister for his less than swan-like attempts at a fight scene when there's no-one else in the same position who would have been better. Liam Neeson did a pretty good job in Taken but, again, he was using the different, prettier Jujitsu (I think I read before that it was Krav Blaga) which makes things loop together much nicer. And he wasn't wearing a rubber suit.
If we're talking about Asian martial arts films then it becomes an issue but he's a dude dressed as a Bat performing from a limited skill-set. Compared to previous Batmen, which is the only fair way to do it, Bale was light years ahead.

Skarjo wrote:

Ginga wrote:...stuff like Keysi (if that's what it is) and Hap Ki Do, or any hoshinsool , (excuse my spelling if it's off!).

Admit it, you just made those up.

Surprisingly, no. I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, Hap Ki Do, a brown belt (moved into TKD) in Karate and I did a few, unranked, years at Keysi - it's all good, practical, stuff.

Still, it's no match for a gang of hoodies with machetes

My point is that he looks stilted. It's like that age old complaint peope make about videogames regarding enemies forming an orderly queue to take you on. In TDK, it's choreographed to the point of tedium, it's like you can see the cue cards telling them what next. There's no flow to it. Even 'ugly' combat has a sense of pacing or naturalness to it, here it looks choreographed, and not in a good sense.

Ginga wrote:

Banjo wrote:Maybe I should clarify it moreso. Chris Nolan can't direct fight scenes, all the ones in both Batman films were pretty gooseberry fool, and weren't helped by Christian Bale's inability to fight. Of course, I realise the Batsuit must have restricted him a tad, but going by what i saw in Equilibrium, the man cannot do action. The opening of TDK was great, but it wasn't an action scene.

Well, I was expecting that response ...but what else would you call it?

I honestly don't know where the Bale-can't-fight thing comes from. He's given a set of calculated, choreographed moves to perform, maybe having a say in what he thinks would work and what might not. The fighting style used in both Batman films was Keysi (I think) which is all about close-combat, reactive-weight, counters based on using an open-source of attack i.e if you can use your forehead then do it. It's a really tight, technical work. I know from personal experience that stuff like Keysi (if that's what it is) and Hap Ki Do, or any hoshinsool , (excuse my spelling if it's off!) aren't the prettiest of styles but they're among the most realistic and effective in that sort of combat, so it would make sense for Batman to use them. It's hard to film them, however, so I think in the movies they tried to open it up that little bit so the camera could catch on to what was happening. That's why the part where he bursts through the window in China seems more obtuse than it would be in real-life or in other scenes.

While he'll never be Jet Li or Jackie Chan, there was never a point where I thought "he's gooseberry fool at fighting" because it's a film not a UFC brawl and he seemed to handle the move-set just as well as anyone I've trained or sparred with has.
I guess I really don't understand your point. I know that you're quite well versed on films so you surely know the difference between direction/editing and performance. I don't think any of the complaints you have about the action scenes had anything to do with Bale. Not that I can comprehend, anyway.

I think what Ginga's trying to say here is that he knows loads of martial arts n'gooseberry fool. So don't mess with him or he'll break you Banjo.

But I've had Henke teach me the Art Of Rape. It was a very physical course, and I've come out the other side stronger than ever. I'm more than a match.

Banjo wrote:But I've had Henke teach me the Art Of Rape. It was a very physical course, and I've come out the other side stronger than ever. I'm more than a match.

Well, if Henke taught you then I'll just dress up as a big black woman. Your training will mean you'll never come near me.

I've evolved from my master. My fighting robes instil fear and hate in those near me. I got them off D.W.Griffith, nice chap.

Do they come in white, perchance?

Ginga wrote:Do they come in white, perchance?

Banjo does.


Exclusively.

Very good.

When it comes to TDK Banjo just talks utter gooseberry fool!

Multiple deaths, a bus crashing through the wall, and a gunfight in the middle of a bank heist and yet it isn't an action scene?